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30.12.2009 22:32
| In einem einstündigen Interview mit dem US-Fernsehsender CBS beklagte der Ökumenische Patriarch Bartholomäus, dass Christen in der Türkei wie Bürger zweiter Klasse behandelt würden. Türkische Staatspolitiker einschließlich des Ministerpräsidenten Erdoğan würden nichts gegen die religiöse Ungleichbehandlung im Lande unternehmen.
Türkische Behörden haben kirchliche Immobilien beschlagnahmt, orthodoxe Kirchen und Schulen geschlossen und durch ihr Verhalten bei orthodoxen Würdenträgern und Laien die Befürchtung ausgelöst, dass die türkische Regierung eine der ältesten Kirchen der Welt aus ihrem Ursprungsland vertreiben will. Insbesondere beklagte der Patriarch die Schließung des orthodoxen Priesterseminars Halki im Jahre 1971. Da die Türkei nur in der Türkei geborene orthodoxe Geistliche als Patriarch anerkennt, kommt die Schließung der Austrocknung der Orthodoxie gleich: „Es ist ein Elend. Es ist eine Schande und ein Verbrechen, eine derartige Schule grundlos geschlossen und ungenutzt zu halten“, führte Bartholomäus in dem Interview aus. „Diese Schule hat Menschen ausgebildet, die den Frieden predigen, die Einheit, die Liebe. Wenn folglich der Kirche die Möglichkeit vorenthalten wird, solche Geistlichen auszubilden, dann verletzen wir die menschliche Würde.“
Bartholomäus I. ist das spirituelle Oberhaupt von 300 Millionen orthodoxen Christen weltweit. In der Türkei ist die Zahl türkischer Staatsbürger orthodoxen Glaubens nach Völkermord und Zwangsaussiedlung allerdings auf höchsten 4.000 gesunken, davon etwa 1.200 ethnische Griechen. Hinzu kommen allerdings Zehntausende orthodoxer Arbeitsmigranten aus postsozialistischen Staaten.
Interview und Hintergrundbericht:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/17/60minutes/main5990390.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody
Orthodox Church Head: Turkey Treats Christians Poorly
The head of the Eastern Orthodox Church said Christians are treated like second-class citizens in Turkey, the land where the equivalent of the Orthodox Church's "Vatican" lies.
His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew, the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians in the world, said in a CBS "60 Minutes" interview broadcast this week that Turkey's leaders, including the prime minister, have been unresponsive to concrete concerns he raised about religious inequality in the country.
Authorities have seized church properties, closed Orthodox churches, monasteries and schools, causing Orthodox leaders and parishioners to fear that the Turkish government wants to force the oldest church in the world out of the country.
CBS correspondent Bob Simon noted that all that is left of the command center of Constantinople, now known as Istanbul and that once ruled the former Christian empire, is a complex of nine buildings "tightly squeezed" on less than an acre of land.
"We are treated as citizens of second class," lamented the patriarch, who noted that the Orthodox Church took root on the land long before the country of Turkey was established and became a nation where the population is 99 percent Muslim. "We don't feel like we enjoy our full rights as Turkey citizens."
In particular, the patriarch cited the forced closure of the country's only local Orthodox Patriarchal Seminary, called Halki, without proper reason. Since Turkey only allows Turkey-born citizens to become the patriarch, shutting down of the seminary essentially cuts off the ability of the Orthodox Church to produce future generations of leaders.
"It is a pity. It is a shame and a crime to keep such a school closed and unused for no reason," said the patriarch, who is an alumni of Halki. "This school prepared people who preach peace, who preach unity, who preach love. So not giving to the church the possibility to prepare these people (priests), we offend human dignity."
Bartholomew dismissed the idea of relocating the Ecumenical Patriarchate. He emphasized that the Orthodox Church was established in Constantinople and has continued to exist in the same location for centuries.
"We love our country. We are born here," said Bartholomew, explaining why the Church's headquarters cannot be moved. "We want to die here. We feel that our mission is here, as it has been for 17 entire centuries."
He added in a sad tone of voice while looking at the ground, "I wonder why the authorities of our country do not respect this history."
In addition to the Ecumenical Patriarchate, Turkey is home to some of the oldest Christian sites in the world, including the Cathedral of Hagia Sophia, built by the Byzantine Emperor Justinian in 537 A.D., as well as many of the most famous monuments and churches in Christendom, including those of Cappadocia.
The Patriarch, who was not hostile towards the Turkish government in the interview, concluded by saying, "We prefer to stay here, even crucified sometimes, because in the Gospel it is written that it is given to us not only to believe in Christ but also to suffer for Christ."
Noting that he has never believed that the Orthodox Church could eventually die out in Turkey, he said, "We believe in the resurrection. After the crucifixion the resurrection comes."
There were nearly 2 million Orthodox Christians in what is now Turkey at the turn of the 19th century. In 1923, Turkey expelled 1.5 million Christians, and in 1955 about 150,000 Christians fled the country after violent anti-Christian violence. Today, there are only 4,000 Orthodox Christians left.
Ethan Cole
Christian Post
Das CBS-Interview des Ökumenischen Patriarchen löste in den türkischen Medien wie zu erwarten große Aufregung aus und setzte das Patriarchat unter Erklärungsdruck. In dieser Situation führte er ein Interview mit der Tageszeitung „Milliyet“:
Interview published in Milliyet on 24 December 2009
By Aslı Aydıntaşbaş
asli.aydintasbas@milliyet.com.tr
We're running out of oxygen
Noting that refusal to open the Seminary threatened the future of the Patriarchate;
Bartholomew asked "Who will I appoint to churches in other countries?"
"Deep state is blocking its opening"
Claiming that the "Patriarchate is running out of oxygen" the Patriarch said: "Most of our clerics are above 70. What will happen if we cannot train new clerics? The Seminary was open during the Ottoman period. Atatürk, Inönü and Menderes didn't close it down. In 1971, it was closed down for unjustified reasons. Probably the deep state does not want it to be opened. The Government does, Nimet Çubukçu says "there is no legal obstacle'. Then it must be blocked by the deep state."
'We are being held hostage'
"We are being held hostage due to the Turks in Cyprus and Western Thrace. We want our rights as Turkish citizens. We want to train clergy. The State should give us that opportunity, be it through a university or a seminary. Why should we try to find someone from here or there when we can appoint to the churches in Germany, Belgium, Sweden and Australia clergy who have been trained in Turkey and who love this country.
Following his controversial remarks in CBS TV where he said, 'I am crucified', Phanar Rum Patriarch Bartholomew abandoned his usual cautious style and said, "We're running out of oxygen. The Patriarchate is perishing".
In the historic building of the Patriarchate in Balat, we met
Bartholomew who accepted the interview request of only Milliyet after
the CBS interview.
Bartholomew, who has been holding the most senior position of the Orthodox world for 19 years, had lots to say. When I asked 'Why do you
feel crucified?' he mentioned -in front of a press organ for the first
time- many issues ranging from the 6-7 September incidents to the
confiscation of foundation property and the desecration of the Greek
cemetery.
He felt under immense pressure; maybe because he is going to turn 70 in February or maybe due to the fact that the Halki Seminary has been closed for 39 years. As he talked he felt increasingly relieved and he started to spell out the issues one after the other; the wealth tax during Inönü's time, forced exiles in Aşkale and sending of 1400
non-Muslims to labour camps, the confiscation of foundation schools and
monasteries on the islands, 6-7 September incidents, the persistent
confiscation by the Foundations Directorate General of their buildings
and schools in the nicest places of Istanbul, State intervention in the
election of Metropolitans and his outcry against the State's unnamed
principle: "We will grant rights to the patriarchate within the
framework of reciprocity with the Western Thrace Turks".
And most important of all, and again and again the Halki Seminary...
There is also the global dimension of the problem. Bartholomew, who was elected as the Patriarch in 1991 when he was only 51, is the most
important leader of the Orthodox world. Even if the title "ecumenical" is disputed in Turkey, Bartholomew is the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox throughout the world as "primus inter pares".
He keeps on receiving invitations from abroad. His room is full of visitors coming from all corners of the world. Many places in Europe as
well as the churches in North-South America and Australia are directly affiliated to the Phanar Patriarchate, which is in charge of appointments to these churches. The Patriarch of the Patriarchate where 51 people work is preoccupied: Most of our clerics are above 70. What will I do if the Halki Seminary is not opened?' Here are the remarks of Bartholomew:
- ERDOĞAN IS BOLD: Actually, among politicians the current Prime Minister is the one who is most interested in our affairs. Mr. Erdoğan is more interested in minorities compared to other politicians. He is bold and good-willed. He is taking brave steps by launching new initiatives for Armenians, Kurds and Alevis. These are good developments for Turkey. I'm sure that our turn will come.
- I DID NOT PLAN THE CBS INTERVIEW: There were many requests for interviews. At first, I had refused but our community in America insisted. Finally, I agreed. They visited us from CBS several times. When they came in Easter, I was very ill. Still, we went to Halki.
- I TOLD THE TRUTH: What we said is not a lie, but the truth. I told the truth but no one liked it.
- I USED CRUCIFIXION METAPHORICALLY: They focused on that particular sentence. I used crucifixion metaphorically, meaning that we are suffering, we have problems.
- WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF OXYGEN: Why are we suffering? The Patriarchate is running out of oxygen. Because of Halki of course. What will happen if we cannot train clergy? Most of our Metropolitans in Europe are above 70. Germany, Belgium, Sweden, Australia, they are all affiliated to us. The Metropolitans in these places are old. As for the ones here, they are in their mid-70ies. Who will I appoint to these places? How will I find clerics to appoint? Why should we try to find someone from here or there and people we don't know, when we could have appointed clerics who have been trained in Halki and who love this country? Just because the seminary is closed, we have to send our clergy to Thessaloniki and elsewhere. Most of them don't return. Let's assume that the Seminary has been opened. It will take 6-7 years to train new clergy. Time is running out, we are losing time...
- WHY DIDN'T ATATURK HAVE IT CLOSED DOWN? This Seminary was open during the Ottoman period. It was open in Atatürk's time. Why didn't Atatürk close it down? Inönü and Menderes didn't have it closed down either... In 1971, it was closed down for unjustified reasons. The schools that were closed down at that time were universities. As for ours, it was a post-secondary higher education vocational school.
- WE ARE OPEN TO ANY FORMULA: We want to train clergy; be it through a university or a seminary. The State can say whatever it wants, but we want to train clergy. The State should give us that opportunity.
- LAUSANNE GIVES US THAT RIGHT: The Lausanne Treaty explicitly stipulates that minorities can open schools that provide religious training with their own resources. There was one, but it was closed down. We are not demanding a new right. We want what was foreseen in the Lausanne Treaty.
- IT IS NOT AN UNCONTROLLED SEMINARY: For 39 years, we keep on hearing that it will be or is about to be opened. When he was the Minister of National Education Hüseyin Çelik said, "There is no legal obstacle, if it was left to me I would open it tomorrow". This is not an uncontrolled seminary. It is affiliated to the National Education [Ministry]. Some claim that we do not want State control, which is a lie. Even if you visit it today, you would see the sign of the National Education [Ministry] on its gate.
- NO ONE ASKED OUR OPINION: We heard that there is work underway in Ankara about the seminary. We are complaining due to the fact that no one asked us our opinion so far. We don't have any idea about a work that is being carried out on an issue that concerns us directly. I said this to Egemen Bağış. He was kind enough to listen to me. I said that a commission should be established and that we should discuss the issue there.
- DEEP STATE DOES NOT ALLOW IT TO BE OPENED: Probably the deep state does not want it to be opened. Because the Government does, Hüseyin Çelik said, "If it was left to me I would open it tomorrow". Nimet Çubukçu said, "There is no legal obstacle'. If it is not being opened despite that, then it must be blocked elsewhere. I don't know who is hampering it.
- RECIPROCITY IS ILLOGICAL: They want reciprocity in order to open the seminary. How can we, 3-4 thousand Rums, be compared with the 130-150 thousand people in Western Thrace? Reciprocity is illogical and unethical.
- WE ARE BEING HELD HOSTAGE: Newspaper quoted Nimet Çubukçu as saying; "I don't see a legal obstacle. But Greece should also fulfil Turkey's demands". This means that we are being held hostage due to the Turks in Cyprus and Western Thrace. But we are Turkish citizens. We want our rights as Turkish citizens. Lausanne grants us these rights. Thanks to that, we were able to train enlightened clergy in a peaceful and compassionate environment. The graduates of the Halki Seminary leave behind good memories everywhere they go.
- WE WERE CRUSHED: They claim that there is freedom of worship. Yes, there is freedom of worship but there is no community left. Because the Rum community left, they were sent. In 1964, 12 thousand Rums, Greeks citizens, were deported within 24 hours because of Cyprus. 6-7 September incidents broke out in 1955. We were crushed in 1955. Churches were set on fire. During those years, I was a student in Halki. As it was summer recess, I was in my hometown in Gökçeada. They were going to destroy there as well, but the Metropolitan of the time had heard that something was going to happen. He called the Governor. The Governor of Çanakkale prevented the destruction. But here our houses, shops, churches were set on fire and demolished. Greek cemeteries were desecrated. Crosses were smashed into pieces. Have you watched the movie 'Güz Sancısı'?
- OUR COMMUNITY IS PERISHING: Our patience is running out and our community is perishing, yet no solution is being put forward. Years have gone by. Patriarchate cannot breathe. If it weren't for the pilgrims coming from Greece over the weekends, our churches would be empty. There are 3 thousand Rums left. Our beautiful churches are empty...
- THEY BOMBED OUR BUILDING: How many times has the Patriarchate been bombed. (He explains them one by one) They created a huge hole on this window. I was not here, but a young cleric working in the next room became permanently disabled. They said it was IBDA-C. I don't know.
- THEY WERE GOING TO KILL US WITH THE KAFES (CAGE) PLAN: The bombs stopped but other problems emerged. Look at Ergenekon. And now there is Kafes (Cage). (He showed an article in Zaman daily) This man is confessing that he was going to kill me, Mesrob and Ishak Alaton. What more can I say? What is this if not being crucified?
- ERGENEKON MEMBERS GOT WHAT THYE DESERVED: (Sevgi Erenerol and Kemal Kerinçsiz, who were arrested under the scope of Ergenekon case, have dedicated their careers to a struggle against the Patriarchate.) We are safer now but there are problems. Sevgi Erenerol and Kerinçsiz got what they deserved. There were 4 Rum churches in Galata. The State took them from us and gave them to the Erenerol family. Those churches had been built with great efforts of our ancestors. But then the revenue generated from those buildings was transferred to them [Erenerol family] and they made huge sums of money.
- ERDOĞAN HEARTENED US: We have known each other since the time he was a mayor. We had lunch with him at Anatolia Club on the 15th of August. It was a nice atmosphere. He visited our old Rum orphanage and Hagia Yorgi Monastery, though it was not in his programme. He honoured and heartened us. He gave good signals. Now we're waiting for the subsequent steps.
Billiard saloon in our church!
I have learnt a word from the Patriarch; fused (mazbut). No not the one meaning "a domestic man" [in Turkish]. The code name of the state policy imposed on the Rum properties for years is called "fused". Patriarch always talked about schools, churches that are declared as fused. At last he explained what it meant. Directorate General of Foundations has confiscated Rum properties for years on various grounds. Once they are confiscated, in other words declared as "fused", their management is determined by Foundations where all revenues thereof are transferred to. Bartholomew said; "The Government wants to help us and they have introduced certain amendments to the new foundations law. However we still have 24 fused foundations, which have not yet been returned.
BILLIARD SALOON: I visited our Edirnekapı church in 2007. There was an old Rum school in its yard. It was confiscated, rented out and turned into a billiard saloon. We have sent its pictures to Hayati Yazıcı. Why would that school become fused? There's the Patriarchate, there's the religious community. They arbitrarily declare properties as fused and confiscate them. While we are praying in the court yard of our church people play billiard in the old Rum school a few meters away.
A CENTRE OF DIALOGUE: We have the famous orphanage in Büyükada. DG Foundations attempted to confiscate the building, we opposed to it, and we spent lot of money to attorneys. We applied to ECHR and sought our rights. We will turn the orphanage into a centre dealing with environmental problems and inter-religions dialogue.
STATEMENT FROM THE PATRIARCHATE:
Reference to PM's words with "shroud"
The Rum Patriarchate has issued a written statement with regards to the phrase of "feeling like being crucified". Patriarchate stated that the phrase was merely an expression of the sorrow and grief the problems cause, and said; "There are similar expressions in all languages and they are usually interpreted along with the meanings attributed in that specific language rather than with merely their literal meanings. Apparently the Patriarch did not mean to refer to any pressures from our government. As a matter of fact our Prime Minister sometimes expresses his grief using phrases containing "shroud" in our Turkish language rather than expressions in the Western languages referring to "crucifix".
What had Erdoğan said?
PM Recep Tayyip Erdoğan had attended Şırnak Provincial Congress of AK Party on 4 June 2006 and upon questions of journalists regarding allegations of an assassination plot against him he had said; "A politician always keeps with him his best clothes and his shroud". At the group meeting on 12 February 2008 Erdoğan had criticised CHP Leader Deniz Baykal for indicating "the gallows" and had said; "We set off with those white sheets". Moreover, a year ago upon criticism that no measures were taken against the economic crisis Erdoğan had said; "Have you ever seen a doctor or a family who prepares shroud for a patient who does not give any fatal signals?"
Caption
My fellow citizen Marina: You can be sure that our Rum citizens are committed to our state. We have not created any problems to the state. We were neither drug addicts nor thieves. We have not caused problems but we are victims of problems. Marina who recited the National Anthem is my fellow citizen from Imbros (Gökçeada). She came yesterday. (Upon my question) Yes, they burnt down her house, her brother died.
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